Derby?

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Arehart on November 22, 2007 at 7:04am

Ben, I can understand your confusion. Apache is an umbrella project for open source tools, and many have nothing to do with the web server of the same name.

No, it's not just a development DB. In fact, there's a PDF of a presentation comparing Derby to MySQL and others. Still another is available from IBM.

That points out something important (for some): Derby used to be called IBM Cloudscape and it was released to open source a few years ago, then moved into the Apache project. So besides the many Apache Derby resources, there are also many from IBM on Cloudscape which still apply.

As for using it, it's built into CF8, which means both that it shows up as an option in the drivers list when adding a new DSN, and also the database engine itself if embedded within CF8. Nothing to install. Just start using it. In fact, the CF8 example DBs are now provided in Derby, no longer Access.

There have been a few CF/Derby-oriented blog entries, though note that some were discussing it before the final release of CF8, so some of the problems are solved (like the hassle of creating new databases, now as easy as a checkbox in the DSN setup):

- http://kay.smoljak.com/index.php/creating-derby-embedded-databases-...

- http://www.bryantwebconsulting.com/blog/index.cfm/2007/6/8/using_th...

- http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/index.cfm/2007/6/7/Coldfusion-8-Crea...

- http://www.forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2007/5/29/More-On-Scorpio-And-A...

There's even an article on using Derby with CF 7.02 (written before it was included in CF 8).

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Permalink Reply by Ben Koshy on November 23, 2007 at 8:24am

What are the IDE options? I remember reading the RDS / Article/Blog post about it. Anything else?

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Permalink Reply by Lola J. Lee Beno (KnitGal) on November 23, 2007 at 2:43pm

If you use Eclipse, you can use DTP to access and create Derby databases. See Cfsilence blog for more info.

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Arehart on November 23, 2007 at 6:25pm

Ben, well of course you can connect to it using any tool that supports CF's RDS (Eclipse with the Adobe CF extensions, Dreamweaver, HomeSite+,/CF Studio).

There is also an Eclipse plugin (http://db.apache.org/derby/integrate/index.html#eclipse), as well as a specific open source query tool for it, called Squirrel (http://db.apache.org/derby/integrate/SQuirreL_Derby.html).

Finally, any tool that supports JDBC will work. For instance, AquaData Studio, http://www.aquafold.com, doesn't list Derby directly but they do list support for "Generic JDBC Platform" , and I've even found a couple of references to it perhaps supporting Derby (I've sent them a note directly to ask). I list several other query tools at a new resource page I have: http://www.carehart.org/compendia/tools_to_consider.cfm#query

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Permalink Reply by Wally Kolcz on November 24, 2007 at 2:14pm

What would the overall benefits be for a CF8 web site using an embedded Derby database verses using something like MySQL.

I think that in the event if you created something using CFEverywhere, it would definitely be a benefit to include an embedded database for demos or 'desktop' tools, but any other examples?

Love to learn more about Derby and how to use it. Some of you links are dead and so was the squirrelSQL.org (maybe that was just my IE).

Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Arehart on November 24, 2007 at 6:59pm

Wally, I think the primary benefit would be for those developing (or using) a CF app built to use Derby, where the developer can know that the DB will be there (as long as on CF8), and on any platform. Same for the users: they don't need to "install" a database. Sure, for many of us, this is trivial, and we like the freedom to choose among available DBMSs, but as you allude to with CFEverywhere (but well beyond that), anyone developing packaged apps can take advantage of this.

Similarly, the CF8 example apps are distributed using it. That was Adobe taking advantage of the same benefit. I'm sure, over time, there will be still more uses.

For instance, I hope that Adobe would change the default client storage from the Registry to a Derby DB. Certainly shops could choose it manually, in the meantime (though, sure, if they already have another DBMS installed they may prefer to use that for familiarity.)

Beyond that, as for whether and why to use Dervy over other DBMSs, I'd leave that debate for others to make. Certainly the Derby site will have many such articles making the case, and a google search for derby and mysql will turn up more. Just to clarify, I didn't create this page so much to evangelize the DB and convince people to use it, so much as just to create a place where those who DO use it can communicate and share with one another.

Finally, as for broken links, the only one I can confirm was one of my own. I had created a resource list yesterday, and later in the day I renamed the directory (and forgot to change this reference I'd made). The correct URL is

http://www.carehart.org/resourcelists/tools_to_consider.cfm#query

This CFcommunity.org site doesn't let us change comments after 15 minutes, so I can't correct that.

Are there any other specific links you (or others) find not working? The http://www.squirrelsql.org/ one works fine.

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Permalink Reply by Wally Kolcz on November 24, 2007 at 8:11pm

Thanks for the information. I have been doing a little research and dreaming and I can think of a couple cool ideas to use.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Koshy on November 24, 2007 at 8:22pm

Is there any command-line in-CF way to create a new Derby Database so you automate that installation Charlie?

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Arehart on November 24, 2007 at 9:46pm

Well, Ben, do you really mean "command line" or just programmatic? I'll assume you mean the latter. And do you really mean creating a database or a DSN? I'll assume you really mean the former (in addition to the latter). Both can be done via CFML.

Since CF7, we've had the Admin API which includes methods for creating DSNs, and which could therefore pass in the attribute needed to create a new database while also creating a DSN. See the CF docs which offer examples of using the Admin API, and you can apply the same technique to a Derby DSN. Hope that's helpful.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Koshy on November 25, 2007 at 6:49am

Sorry Charlie, yes, I meant in CFML. I didn't realize they had exposed the Admin API. I'll check that out!

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Arehart on April 6, 2009 at 2:30am

Dan, I think this would have been far more useful to most if you had posted it as a new topic in the Derby group, which one can do here: http://www.coldfusioncommunity.org/group/derby). But your call. It will be here for any who may dig to the bottom of this thread to find it.

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